A senior leader at Fujitsu told colleagues the first report from the public inquiry into the Post Office Horizon scandal was “not that bad”, despite it linking problems with the IT supplier’s software to 13 suicides.
During a meeting in which he said he was speaking “candidly”, the member of the company’s top team, who is leaving Fujitsu, also told staff that the supplier could get around its self-imposed public sector bidding pause by working as a subcontractor, with other suppliers fronting the bids.
His recorded remarks about the devastating inquiry findings are at odds with Fujitsu’s apologetic statements. The report, which was published in July, was described as “profoundly disturbing” by the Post Office Horizon scandal public inquiry chair, Wyn Williams.
When publishing volume one of the inquiry’s report, Williams said he could not rule out the “real possibility” that 13 people took their own lives as a result of their treatment by the Post Office after unexplained shortfalls in their branches, which were eventually found to be caused by errors in Fujitsu’s software.
At the time of the release of volume one of the inquiry’s report in July, Fujitsu said: “We have apologised for, and deeply regret, our role in subpostmasters’ suffering, and we wish to reiterate that apology today. We hope for a swift resolution that ensures a just outcome for the victims.”
The senior leader, whose identity is known to Computer Weekly, briefed colleagues following the publication of the first instalment of the inquiry’s report on the scandal. Computer Weekly has heard a recording of the senior leader telling staff that the inquiry report “was bad” but “not that bad”, and that there was nothing in it that should make him or others “feel bad about working for Fujitsu”.
The statutory public inquiry’s first report said at least 10,000 people have been affected, to different degrees, as a result of the flaws in Fujitsu’s Horizon IT system and the Post Office’s decision to blame subpostmasters for unexplained losses.
Profoundly disturbing
Inquiry chair Williams called the picture that has emerged and is described in his report “profoundly disturbing”, adding that he was “satisfied that a number of employees of Fujitsu and the Post Office” knew Horizon bugs, errors and defects could create “illusory” gains and losses in branches.
Thousands of lives were ruined through mental illness, bankruptcy and wrongful prosecution. Hundreds of subpostmasters were wrongly convicted of crimes, with many sent to prison, and there have been suicides and attempted suicides linked to the scandal.
Fujitsu should be pleading for forgiveness, not saying stuff like that. It is time for Fujitsu to take responsibility for its actions Janet Skinner, former subpostmaster
Janet Skinner, who was wrongly convicted of false accounting, lost her home and livelihood and spent time in prison, separated from her two children. In response to the comments by the IT supplier’s sales executive, she said: “Fujitsu should be pleading for forgiveness, not saying stuff like that. ‘Not that bad’ – tell that to the people that went to prison like me or the families of those that committed suicide.”
Skinner, who had her wrongful conviction for false accounting overturned in 2021, added: “It is time for Fujitsu to take responsibility for its actions.”
Jo Hamilton, who was wrongfully prosecuted and convicted for false accounting in 2003, asked: “If 13 suicides is not bad, what does bad look like?”
She said: “Corporate culture is toxic. They don’t care about anyone other than themselves.” Hamilton also had her wrongful conviction overturned in 2021.
Computer Weekly tried to contact the senior executive both directly and through Fujitsu to request comment, but had received no response to questions at the time of publication.
Fujitsu did not respond to a request for a statement about the executive’s comments. However, a Fujitsu UK spokesperson confirmed he had left the company, but did not give any reason for his exit.“We thank [him] for his efforts and wish him every success for the future,” they said.
One Fujitsu insider slammed the company’s leadership: “The fish rots from the head, and everyone down the hierarchy learns to hold their nose. When leadership shrugs off suffering and treats accountability like a PR exercise, the culture follows. People stop asking what’s right and start asking what they can get away with.”
• Also read: Fujitsu’s role in the Post Office scandal: Everything you need to know •
Hollow gesture
In January 2024, in the aftermath of ITV’s dramatisation of the Post Office scandal, Fujitsu promised to pause bidding for government contracts until the inquiry had finished its work.
But according to sources, the Fujitsu UK leader also told staff that during its self-imposed ban on bidding for public sector contracts, the company planned to work with other suppliers to win work as a subcontractor.
In July this year, he told colleagues it would probably be another year where Fujitsu does not “aggressively” go for new public sector business.
He explained to them that because Fujitsu has been winning business in the UK public sector for a long time, it knows lots of people and understands the domain. He said other suppliers, including BT and Vodafone, were “very keen” to work with Fujitsu as prime contractors, with the Japanese supplier a subcontractor, which would enable it to take government work without actually bidding. Both suppliers refute this statement.
He told colleagues that the company must look at new avenues of bidding to avoid “falling foul” of its own bidding pause.
When contacted by Computer Weekly, BT said: “The assertion that BT is ‘keen’ to work with Fujitsu as ‘prime bidder’, which would allow Fujitsu to win business as a subcontractor, in effect to get around its own bidding pause, is not correct.
“We do not provide services to UK government where we have contracted as a ‘prime bidder’ and incorporated Fujitsu as part of the contract. We also have no discussions or plans to contract with Fujitsu in this way.”
Vodafone said that since January 2024, it has not entered into any new public sector customer relationships where Fujitsu is named or involved as a subcontractor or supplier.
“Our engagement to Fujitsu in relation to public sector contracts remains strictly limited to a small number of existing customers where they are already a named subcontractor. They also do not have any direct engagement with customers where they operate as Vodafone’s subcontractor.”
The telco refuted the claim by the Fujitsu executive. “Vodafone meets with all its suppliers to ensure compliance and smooth delivery of services for customers. Vodafone also has a strict governance process in place to assess its choice of suppliers for any public sector bids, to ensure compliance with government guidelines.”
This attitude mirrors what Computer Weekly revealed in April 2024, when it emerged that staff had been given a flow diagram instructing them how to bid for government contracts during the IT supplier’s self-imposed ban on bidding. Fujitsu’s public sector boss at the time, Dave Riley, told staff: “[The bidding pause] is not a blanket ban on bidding, but is an extra gateway check we need to go through.”
Although Fujitsu has lost government contracts over the past couple of years, its huge existing customer base in the UK government gained it deals worth £450m last year.
Campaigning former subpostmaster Sir Alan Bates said Fujitsu doesn’t understand the impact its actions had on people: “They are doing everything they can to deny any liability in this, when they are highly liable.”
Fujitsu promised to pay towards the costs of the Post Office scandal once the inquiry was complete. The first part of the inquiry report looked at the human impact, covering phase one of the seven inquiry phases. The second, more substantial report, due next year, will cover the remaining six phases. Pertinent to Fujitsu’s role, the remaining phases covered issues including the Horizon IT system’s history, its operation, and legal actions against subpostmasters.
When the second part of the public inquiry report is published next year, Fujitsu will be exposed to huge public pressure.
The Post Office scandal was first exposed by Computer Weekly in 2009, revealing the stories of seven subpostmasters and the problems they suffered due to the accounting software (see timeline of Computer Weekly articles about the scandal below).
