Is Pre Big-Bang Agnosticism a Belief?

I’ve been having a conversation with a friend about whether atheism and
agnosticism is a belief. First off, let’s synchronize.

If one were to claim that nowhere, anywhere in the universe, is there
anything that could be construed as a god, that would be a belief. So, yes,
I would agree that that form of strong atheism is a belief.

What most atheists and agnostics believe, however, is that
we don’t know what happened before the big bang, and that we become
atheists only when faced with specific claims by those who do believe.

So with that in mind, here’s my latest response in this ongoing discussion
on whether or not my contention that Christianity is NOT true is equal to
someone’s contention that it is true. I include it here because I think I
succeeded in capturing the argument better than my previous attempts.

—

First, I didn’t say anything about there being no external influence. But
it’s a leap to give that influence a sentience, a personality, and talk
about what it thinks and wants and loves and hates, and what it did when.

…all based on a book written by men, just like a million other reading written
by men about other such Gods that you don’t believe in.

Second, if someone doesn’t have enough information about what happened pre
big bang, which nobody does, and refuses to come to any conclusions about
it, that’s not strange behavior. It’s logical and humble.

I’m saying I don’t have any idea what caused the big bang, and you’re
calling that crazy. I say it’s 1000 times as crazy to sit on a speck of dust
in a vast universe and tell me that you KNOW not only who created the
universe, but also what they think, what they like, don’t like, etc.

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Think about it for a second. Seriously.

So again, my stance is that your answer is not correct, and your answer is
ASTOUNDINGLY SPECIFIC and personalized.

So if someone says I believe that there is a person in Guam right now
standing on a couch, touching their nose, holding a newspaper, wearing a
yellow shirt, with their shoes untied, who served in Vietnam, and got
married on a Friday…

If I tell you that I don’t believe that, then do I have a BELIEF? No. A
belief, in this context, is an active thing. It’s something you branch out
on based on evidence, personal or otherwise. YOU are the one branching out
here, not me. I’m simply NOT believing in your claim about this person in
Guam.

It is YOUR responsibility to show EVERYONE ELSE why YOU believe this person
is standing on a couch in Guam doing all these things. Why? Because it’s
both HIGHLY SPECIFIC and HIGHLY UNLIKELY.

So don’t call me a non-couch-stander-believer-person. It makes no sense.
Using that system I’m also a non-frogs-flier-believer and a
non-moon-cheese-believer. But we don’t assign ourselves those labels because
that would be silly. And assigning a label to someone who doesn’t believe in
ONE SPECIFIC GOD out of all the thousands that have been created over time
is just as silly.

And please don’t come with, “But mine is SPECIAL!” Of course yours is
special (wink wink). Do you think that’s a unique response? Everyone thinks
THEIR god is the right one. Except for atheists and agnostics. We don’t
think ours is right because we’re not pretentious enough to claim we have
that kind of information.